Episode 40

Winfried Tilanus & Emilie Tromp on Privacy by Design


April 25th, 2023

36 mins 20 secs

Your Host
Special Guests

About this Episode


Winfried Tilanus | Emilie Tromp


Richard Littauer

Show Notes

Hello and welcome to Sustain Open Source Design! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source with design. Learn how we, as designers, interface with open source in a sustainable way, how we integrate into different communities, and how we as coders, work with other designers. Richard has two amazing guests joining him, Winfried Tilanus, who’s a Privacy Consultant at Privacy Company, and Emilie Tromp, who’s a Social Design Strategist at Reframing Studio.

Today, they discuss how Privacy by Design should be approached, and the importance of understanding the different perspectives on privacy. We’ll hear about the Samen Beter project they did, challenges of designing privacy centered systems, the importance of user feedback and testing, and the iterative process of building trust with users when it comes to their data. Download this episode to hear much more!

[00:01:41] What is Privacy by Design?

[00:02:59] Emilie has more of a social design strategy background, so she tells us the project she worked on with Winfried through eHealth applications, and how Privacy by Design should be approached and the importance of understanding the different perspectives on privacy.

[00:07:27] Richard wonders if they’ve implemented Privacy by Design as a theoretical framework for designing something in any open source projects or if they’ve talked to open source projects and how they should implement this.

[00:08:53] Emilie explains more about the project they worked on called, Better Together (Samen Beter in Dutch).

[00:10:05] As part of this open standard that they’ve built for privacy by design, we find out how they made sure that they took into account all the different definitions of privacy.

[00:12:17] Emilie and Winfried highlight how they tested some concepts with end users who don’t use eHealth but could envision a scenario in the future where they would be using eHealth, and they explain a game they developed called, The Privacy Game.

[00:17:15] Earlier, they mentioned this is an open standard they’re making, and we hear if someone wants to build an app, how they can implement Privacy by Design as a standard into their process.

[00:21:24] Richard wonders if he can see the standard for Privacy by Design and how he can apply it directly whenever he’s working, and Emily tells us there’s a new standard for Privacy by Design, currently in the draft stage.

[00:26:52] In Emilie and Winfried’s work with implementing Privacy by Design, developing a standard on it, and talking to users, we learn what work they had to do to convince other people in their organization that it’s a good idea, and they share some ideas on how other designers do that.

[00:29:23] Winfried and Emilie gave a talk at FOSDEM, and we hear if they had any special notes about reaching out to open source designers or developers about how they could implement these principles into their work.

[00:31:05] Find out where you can learn more about Privacy by Design and where to follow Winfried and Emilie on the web.


[00:29:50] “It may be even easier for open source developers to work through the methodology because a lot of projects have clear stated principles as guidelines for what commits to accept or not.”

[00:30:18] “When it’s open source, it’s much easier to show what you’re doing in reality is what you show also, that it aligns.”


  • [00:33:08] Richard’s spotlight is Privacy Badger.
  • [00:33:28] Winfried’s spotlight is the book, The Space Between Us by Cynthia Cockburn.
  • [00:34:11] Emilie’s spotlight is the book, Le Grand Vide by Lea Murawiec.